A question about Fremont Citizens Network

I have twice been a member of this group and have enjoyed reading the posts. Thanks to all of you for your thoughtful and passionate comments. I have learned a lot from these discussions and look forward to more.

I also understand that there are several points of view with regard to the A's stadium issue and that this issue seems to be the dominant discussion on this board.

My only comment, as a person somewhere in between the two opposing viewpoints, is that I have to disagree, in very strong terms, with the new policy of an arbitrary "filtering out" of certain people's opinions. If they are offensive or threatening, or are spam or have advertising in them I can see this. But to have legitimate dissenting opinions filtered out of the front page of the site is a bad move IMHO. I don't know that I would call it censorship, but I do not know what else to call it. Real debate is where opinions are made and swayed, not in presenting a single viewpoint when we all know there are many.

I want to reiterate again that I have enjoyed seeing both points of view. And if you want to convince me of your position, as a longtime Fremont resident and voter, I put much more credence in a free flow of information that is not filtered at all than I do in a flow of information that discourages other viewpoints. Speaking for myself, I'd rather see all the activity displayed in the main page so I can choose what to read and therefore what to accept as fact. I learned far more from the interaction between the two sides than I have from only hearing one side of the issue. I like the title and tagline at the top of the pages, so I'm asking that you walk the walk as well as talking the talk.

I studied Politcal Science in college, so I have strong opinions about the free exchange of ideas and I hope we can get back to that concept here. History has shown that without interacive discussions between the two sides, the truth is usually never uncovered.

I know the founder of this page is fond of Quoting Margaret Mead, so here is one of her quotes you may have missed:

"If we are to achieve a richer culture, rich in contrasting values, we must recognize the whole gamut of human potentialities, and so weave a less arbitrary social fabric, one in which each diverse human gift will find a fitting place."

So I humbly ask that this board go back to the way it was, presenting all opinions equally on all pages and also for the sides to interact rather than ignore rational points and questions. You may be surprised at what this simple concept can do to further your cause and equally surprised at how your cause can be undermined by not doing it.

People remember. And nothing etches into the mind more deeply than the perception of being censored or ignored or treated unfairly. Being disagreed with however, is part of how rational people interact and you may find that you have a better chance to agree and work together on other subjects when this A's issue has been settled if you allow equal access. Conversly, you may find that you breed a permanent opponent to anything you try to do if you do not give your current opponent the same opportunities as you do for those who agree with you.

Sincerely,

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Michael on February 26, 2010 at 3:13pm

So you don't know what you were talking about either then. At least we agree on that. I don't have a bbox decoder ring so let's just forget it. My playbook involves facts and people saying what they mean, so we're likely playing from your playbook on this one.

Have fun in bbox-ville.

bbox231 said:

Sheesh Michael - take a page out of your own book -

AND A G A I N - you've overlooked yet another possibility - - -

And again - - --

Aww never mind.

Michael said:
What?

Oh, I guess it's OK for you to call Matthew an idiot? Maybe you called yourself an idiot?

I posted and you called (someone) an idiot, I thought it was me since I'm the usual target of your attacks. Only you know what is going on inside your head. I live here, in the outside world.

Do you actually read what you write?

bbox231 said:
..and when I posted this, I had absolutlely no doubt which of the two parties would take offense even as I made NO assertion as to which of the two were the 'idiot". Nice goin' Michael - while perhaps you might have room to debate your relative wisdom, you have left absoultely no doubt that you are at least, blatantly presumptuous.

Michael said:
Once again, I'm called an idiot but the offender is not censored, or reprimanded (fair and balanced, just like FOX news!).

This is cool, especially since you could not look up 2 Fremont residents on your own search engine.

I'm guessing you are not a detective in real life.

bbox231 said:
I think it was Mark Twain who said - "Never argue with an idiot, · onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

Dexter said:
Matthew,

Hope you enjoyed your weekend and welcome back. And thanks for confirming Godwin's Law.

Dex

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by FCN Admin on March 2, 2010 at 9:27pm

Reply by Alex Singh 12:30pm 3/2/2010 (from a different unrelated discussion, moved here)

is she the one who censor us or is it just the administrator? will new president stand by for censoring?

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by FCN Admin on March 2, 2010 at 9:30pm

Reply by Jim Hunt 4:30pm 3/2/2010 (from a different unrelated discussion, moved here)

Dear Alex,

I will continue the past policy of retaining opposing opinions within the blogs/discussions. Opposing positions and opinions are welcome, and help to set the background for explaining misconceptions, incorrect information, and slogans that are passed around without due diligence or vetting. All to often people accept things without questioning them, and rally behind something without honest discussion of alternative views. We must also stand by that axiom and consider views that do not agree with our own, before we can claim to have done due-diligence on any position. We try hard to do that.

We will continue to request the moderator to remove offensive material that uses rude, abusive, or crude language. There are plenty of other forums that may tolerate that, but we will not.

This website is dedicated to, and exists for, Fremont's residents.

Newer discussions and comments will naturally be posted above older, pushing older comments down on the page.

Regards,

Jim Hunt
President, FCN

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by FCN Admin on March 2, 2010 at 9:32pm

Reply by bbox231 4:30pm 3/2/2010 (from a different unrelated discussion, moved here)

Hi, Alex -

You might want to read what Jim originally described as "censorship" back in early February.
Looks like this rumor has a mind of its own !

Read here -

http://community.fremontcitizensnetwork.org/forum/topics/a-question...

I thought I had seen your alias around FCN before and I would have guessed you would have seen these explanations before, but perhaps you missed them the last time someone started this rumor.

But, let's revisit that explanation for your benefit - The only missing piece that you and others are not grasping is that the FCN home page and the "banner" links that appear therein ARE selected by the admin - just like the layout of any publication is directed by the Editor . . .. not everything ends up on the cover page. . . . and thus, not everything ends up on the FCN homepage.

BUT - if you want to be certain to NOT miss anything and you just want to make sure that YOUR most recent post is listed in FCN- - - just bypass the home page and jump directly to the forums !

- - - you'll see ALL of the most recent activity in its unfettered uncensored craziness !

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by FCN Admin on March 2, 2010 at 9:38pm

Reply by Michael 7:30pm 3/2/2010 (from a different unrelated discussion, moved here)

bbox - Rumor?

This is no rumor, it's a fact that FCN began to filter the non anti-ballpark people out with NO offensive language or threats ever being posted. All the cronies are allowed to post and the admin allows them to stay there, but not those with different opinions. Jokes about people eating excrement were posted by the cronies and allowed to stay but solicitations for answers to questions about the FCN's position on the ballpark were filtered out.

I don't want to speak for Alex, but your "explanation" explains only your spin of what happened, not what actually happened.

The founding fathers would be proud.

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Permalink Reply by FCN Admin on March 2, 2010 at 9:39pm

Reply by fremonter 9:30pm 3/2/2010 (from a different unrelated discussion, moved here)

Isn't it amazing that all of the posts that criticize FCN as not being open to all viewpoints are still posted to the site? If FCN were, in fact, removing comments, wouldn't they remove the comments that were critical of the site?

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Permalink Reply by FCN Admin on March 2, 2010 at 9:42pm

Please stop the false accusation. Here is the official FCNAdmin response earlier: /forum/topics/a-question-about-fremont?commentId=2633756:Comment:13673

Please stay on the topic and do not hijack other discussion threads.

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Permalink Reply by Alex Singh on March 3, 2010 at 1:04pm

mr hunt why wont you allow the front page to show latest post instead of automatic removal of certan people? why do you allow?

FCN Admin said:

Reply by Jim Hunt 4:30pm 3/2/2010 (from a different unrelated discussion, moved here)

Dear Alex,

I will continue the past policy of retaining opposing opinions within the blogs/discussions. Opposing positions and opinions are welcome, and help to set the background for explaining misconceptions, incorrect information, and slogans that are passed around without due diligence or vetting. All to often people accept things without questioning them, and rally behind something without honest discussion of alternative views. We must also stand by that axiom and consider views that do not agree with our own, before we can claim to have done due-diligence on any position. We try hard to do that.

We will continue to request the moderator to remove offensive material that uses rude, abusive, or crude language. There are plenty of other forums that may tolerate that, but we will not.

This website is dedicated to, and exists for, Fremont's residents.

Newer discussions and comments will naturally be posted above older, pushing older comments down on the page.

Regards,

Jim Hunt
President, FCN

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Alex Singh on March 3, 2010 at 1:05pm

your response is not true!!!!!! you censor people off front pages every day. why do you allow this?

FCN Admin said:

Please stop the false accusation. Here is the official FCNAdmin response earlier: /forum/topics/a-question-about-fremont?commentId=2633756:Comment:13673

Please stay on the topic and do not hijack other discussion threads.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jim Hunt on March 3, 2010 at 2:02pm

My response is true and correct. However, if you believe it to be untrue, please send details (time of post, discussion topic, etc) so I can track down the perceived problem.

Alex Singh said:

your response is not true!!!!!! you censor people off front pages every day. why do you allow this?

FCN Admin said:
Please stop the false accusation. Here is the official FCNAdmin response earlier: /forum/topics/a-question-about-fremont?commentId=2633756:Comment:13673

Please stay on the topic and do not hijack other discussion threads.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by bbox231 on March 3, 2010 at 4:25pm

ALRIGHTY . . . now we're beginning to make some progress. . . . .

Take careful note that Alex' original claim of unilateral and across-the-board "censorship" has now changed form !

The problem that Alex is concerned about s/he/it N O W describes as "censor people off front pages..." - but, of course, Alex (and others who have expressed this same concern) have been REPEATEDLY told that the home page content is selected by the site admin . . . .

Alex - please do a lookup on the definition of "censor" and "edit" and/or "select".

Alex Singh said:

your response is not true!!!!!! you censor people off front pages every day. why do you allow this?

FCN Admin said:
Please stop the false accusation. Here is the official FCNAdmin response earlier: /forum/topics/a-question-about-fremont?commentId=2633756:Comment:13673

Please stay on the topic and do not hijack other discussion threads.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Evan Howards on March 3, 2010 at 10:47pm

Maybe you should look up the defintion since it's exactly what is going on here. I can only say that you seem to live in an alternate universe Mr. Bbox. You hear and read things than no one else does and you claim people say things that they didn't. I never saw any post from Alex or anybody else that claimed "across the board and unilateral censorship". Please direct me to the post with that text in it.

bbox231 said:

ALRIGHTY . . . now we're beginning to make some progress. . . . .

Take careful note that Alex' original claim of unilateral and across-the-board "censorship" has now changed form !

The problem that Alex is concerned about s/he/it N O W describes as "censor people off front pages..." - but, of course, Alex (and others who have expressed this same concern) have been REPEATEDLY told that the home page content is selected by the site admin . . . .

Alex - please do a lookup on the definition of "censor" and "edit" and/or "select".

Alex Singh said:
your response is not true!!!!!! you censor people off front pages every day. why do you allow this?

FCN Admin said:
Please stop the false accusation. Here is the official FCNAdmin response earlier: /forum/topics/a-question-about-fremont?commentId=2633756:Comment:13673

Please stay on the topic and do not hijack other discussion threads.